LIFE TO THE FULL w/ Nancy Campbell

EPISODE 265: It’s Time to Elevate the Role of Husband and Wife, Continued - Part 7

In Malachi chapter 2, the question rings out, “What does God want from your marriage?” God comes back with His answer. Do you know what it is?

Announcer: Welcome to the podcast, Life to The Full, with Nancy Campbell, founder and publisher of Above Rubies.

Nancy Campbell: Hello, everyone! Colin and I are back with you, continuing to talk from Malachi 2:14-16, all about marriage. We notice another little thing here today. It begins with the words “The Lord hath been witness between you and the wife of your youth.”

I am thinking about the words: “The Lord has been witnessing.” Wow! That is pretty amazing, isn’t it? God is witnessing everything that’s happening in our marriage. He’s witnessing all our interactions together. He’s witnessing our attitudes to one another. It’s not hidden. It’s all there before the eyes of the Lord.

So, dear lovely ladies, wives, and maybe any husbands listening, we must remember that. Oh, what a difference it would make in our marriages if we were constantly aware of this truth that God is watching and witnessing. The paraphrase of The Message Bible says: “God was there as a witness when you spoke your marriage vows to your young bride.” That’s another thing He witnessed. He witnessed our vows. Wow!

That is powerful, too, because in every marriage we say vows. Are we keeping to our vows? Maybe you said something like this, which are very original marriage vows. I love to hear the original, powerful, and strong marriage vows. Sometimes young couples today like to make up their own vows. Sometimes they can be very wonderful too. Sometimes they can be a little wishy washy, full of love, and all that kind of stuff. But there’s more than love that’s involved in vows. There is commitment and there are powerful words.

I love to hear a married couple speak forth these words: “I take you to be my lawfully wedded husband, and forsaking all others, to have and to hold from this day forward. For better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love, cherish, and to obey according to God’s holy ordinance.”

We go to Proverbs 2:17. It talks there about the wife who “forsakes the guide of her youth, and forgets the covenant of her God.” Yes! When we make vows on our wedding day, it wasn’t only a covenant with our husbands. It was a covenant with God. And God was witnessing. Do you notice it? You’re most probably just listening to me but if you go back to your Bible later, you will see those words: “The covenant of her God.”

It is a covenant with God. What does the word “covenant” mean? That word in the Hebrew is beriyth, and it means “a compact made by passing between pieces of flesh as God did with Abraham in Genesis 15. A contract accompanied by signs, sacrifices, and a solemn oath which seals the relationship with promises of blessing for obedience and curses for disobedience.” Well, that’s the big meaning, but that’s the whole understanding of “covenant.”

That’s another thing. Marriage is OK. We come to marriage and we’re in love. But life is not perfect. Life is not easy, and things happen. Things are said, and things are done. Love can fly out the window. But marriage is more than just the love. It is the commitment. It is a covenant, a covenant that we make with God. Amen?

Colin Campbell: This covenant, as it brings out here, is so important to process and accept. To think about it and to accept it as it states here that it’s a covenant of the guide of her youth. She was happy to be guided by the Lord during her young days. Now she’s gotten married, and somehow . . .

Nancy: And her husband is now her guide.

Colin: Her husband is now her guide. Also, the Lord, as well. She’s forgotten the God of the covenant here. That’s what it mentions. She’s desecrated that wife life, entertaining others in a marital way into her life, a formicatory way into her life. This is tragic.

I think we need to realize just how the covenant we make is not just with our wives. So many people think that. I think its what people take for granted that, “My covenant is with my wife.” But no, this covenant is with the Lord as well. It’s such an important thing. I think that can revolutionize a lot of marriages if we understand that when we’re going into this covenant.

Nancy: Yes, OK. Let’s keep looking at this wonderful passage in Malachi 2:15: “Did He not make one?” And then it carries on in the King James and it’s a little difficult to understand, so let’s read another translation.

The BSB says: “Has not the Lord made them one, having a portion of the Spirit?”

The ESV says: “Did He not make them one, with the portion of the Spirit in their union?”

And then let’s carry on in King James: “And wherefore one?” In other words, why did God make the man and wife one? The question is asked. And then, back comes the answer. Are you ready for it? “That He might seek a godly seed.”

This is a very powerful truth for marriage because many couples go into marriage with not a thought of having children. Oh, well, one day they might have children. But so many couples go into marriage today, they have all their plans of what they’re going to do, and how they’re going to get their house paid for, and how they’re going to get everything they need. They’re going to be really set up, and they’re going to have time to get to know one another. Then they might be ready to have children.

But that is not God’s plan at all. In fact, God makes it very plain here. Why did God make us one? Because He longs for godly offspring. This is what God wants from our marriage.

Let’s read The New Living Translation: “Didn’t the Lord make you one with your wife? In body and spirit, you are His. And what does He want? Godly children from your union.”

The God’s Word Translation says: “Didn’t God make you one? Your flesh and spirit belong to Him. What does the same God look for? But godly descendants.”

God is making it very clear here that He looks for the godly seed. He looks for godly children to come forth from our union. So, when a married couple gets married, but they have no thought of having children, they’re not really ready for marriage. It’s not really a biblical, godly marriage. It’s just two people living together!

For out of marriage comes motherhood, and that’s God’s plan. In fact, this is a pretty powerful statement. If a couple do not want children, they have a different mindset than God. Can I say that again? If a couple going into marriage don’t want children, they have a different mindset than God. They’re on a different page than God. They’re out of sync with God because that is not His vision for marriage.

Colin: Especially if they’re delaying it. They may want children, but they want children later. You’ve got no guarantee that there will be children later. Because you want to get everything first—you want to get your home, and your business, and your marriage solidified, and so on, like that.

But in the having of children, that’s all part of marriage. If we realize that as we have children, our eyes get more taken up with children than just being critical with one another. This is a blessing in itself, just having children to bless your marriage. So many people are fighting with one another and not realizing how children can actually stop you from fighting with one another. It's a tremendous thing.

Nancy: There are some couples who, yes, they love the Lord with all their hearts. They are so wanting to serve the Lord. Therefore, they delay children for so-called “spiritual reasons.” I know many couples who have said to me, “Well, we don’t want to have children straightaway because we’re in the ministry. We’re serving the Lord. We don’t want anything to hinder our serving the Lord.”

In the days of mission boards, when missionaries would go out to the field, not like they do today, just a short-term mission. But they would go out for great lengths of time. Many mission boards would not accept people who had more than two or three children which was really against the Word of God.

Colin: And they didn’t want them to have children on the mission field.

Nancy: I know. And can you believe that? Here they are, going out to teach heathen people the ways of the Lord and they’re teaching them something foreign.

Colin: And sometimes those people have a greater relationship, even amongst the heathen people, Islamics for example, have a greater understanding of the value of children. Here, a missionary couple comes over to speak to them about Jesus Christ and the ways of the Bible, but they don’t have any understanding of the value of family.

Nancy: I know. The heathen that he is teaching are having children and they’re stopping children!

Colin: Just imagine how those people, who are so-called of Islamic faith, or something, can they receive anything from these people if they have no great value on the family? God is such a family God. He really wants people to get married and multiply. Replenish the earth, take dominion.

It’s through children, raising children in the godly ways of the Lord that will attack the enemy. We are raising soldiers. We are raising young babies, and we’re having them, and we’re raising them in the family to be a godly workforce, to be a godly influence in the land. We should not be holding back on God in that regard, because if we do, we hold back the ways of the Lord. It’s a phenomenal force. That is true.

Nancy: And it’s not just having children for the sake of having children, because what do we read here? “That He might seek a godly seed,” or as some translations say: “What does He want? Godly children from your union.” That word “godly” is actually, is literally, the word Elohim. It’s a very first word that is used to describe God, in the very beginning. “In the beginning, God . . .” “In the beginning, Elohim.”

Now we read this same word, “I look, I long for Elohim’s children, children who come forth in the image of God and are trained in His ways and will come forth out of the home to bring the image of God, to bring His light and His salvation and His truth to the world.” This is God’s heart. He longs for godly children.

OK, we are obedient to having children, but it doesn’t stop there. Then, our vision in life then is to raise these godly children, raise them in the Word, fill them with the Word of God, and prepare them to be lights and heralders of Christ in this world.

Colin: Yes. So, having these children, and multiple children, is so important to God. It’s not important in today’s modern church. They have no understanding of this. They do not even want to understand that point. They see children as being a kind of a nuisance and getting in the way of the couples’ mission of going overseas or anything like that.

This is happening, but it’s wrong. It’s not the way God wants it to be. Godly children are raised by godly parents. It’s bringing about the likeness and the image. We’re co-creators with God in the form of bringing our children into having godly education and having godly influence in their lives. They will come out of that home or be raised up in that home to be a godly influence in the world.

These children of ours are really raised to be agents made in the likeness and image of God. Each one of these children, you never know just how far and what great influence they can have as salt and as light. Whatever we are meant to be for God, so are we raising children in that same dimension. Even to go further than us.

Nancy: That’s so true. Another little thought. You know, I didn’t always understand these truths. I remember in the early days of my marriage struggling with this whole concept, because it wasn’t taught as I was growing up, even in the church. I was thinking, “Wow! Well, if I’m going to be home with all these children, how can I serve the Lord?” I think that’s how a number of couples think, especially those who love the Lord, and they want to serve the Lord.

But as I was grappling with this truth one night, the Lord woke me up and spoke these words to my heart. He said to me:

“The perfect will of God for your life will never contradict My existing commandments.”

Therefore, what was the very first command that God ever gave? The very first words that God ever proclaimed into the ears of man were these words: “Be fruitful, multiply, and fill the earth.” They were the very first words that God spoke to man!

Therefore, if we cannot receive them, we are in disobedience. If we think that, “OK, I can’t have children because, oh, I won’t be able to serve the Lord, or I won’t be able to do this ministry, or I won’t be able to do that,” it’s not God’s perfect will. It’s our own desires. Because God’s perfect will can never contradict what He has already said.

I believe that we can have children and serve the Lord. In fact, I think we serve in a greater way by embracing the children He wants to give us. We multiply our ministry. If it’s just going to be us who are doing it, it’s confined only to us. But as we train children in the ways of the Lord, our ministry is multiplied. The message of God is multiplied. The image of God is multiplied. The more children we have, the more we release of the image of God in the world.

Colin: Yes. When we deny God these children, we deny His image in the world, and increasing the image of God in the world to fill the whole world. We deny our own blessings with that. We deny so many eternities with that mindset.

This is something that might maybe be new to many people that are hearing this podcast today, but this is absolutely the truth. God is in this. There is nowhere you can find in the Bible that He’s against having children with the godly people that love Him and walk in His ways. He will bless them and will provide for them, and God’s image and God’s ways will be multiplied in the earth. God intends it to be this way.

Nancy: Now, we need to look at this a little bit more. That word that God said when he answered, “What does God want from your marriage? I want a godly seed.” That’s the word in the King James. Other translations use the word “children,” or “descendants.” But what is that word in the Hebrew? It’s the Hebrew word zera, Z-E-R-A, and this word literally means “it can mean the sperm, but it can mean also, little children. It can mean teenage children. It can mean adults. It’s a word that is used comprehensively from the sperm right up to until someone dies, really.”

It’s amazing. When we read the word “seed,” we just think of, OK, seed, well, that’s just a sperm. But it’s amazing, ladies. Isn’t it amazing that God uses the same word, “sperm, seed,” the word zera? He uses that same word for the word “sperm.” If we read in the King James language, it calls the sperm “the seed of copulation.” That Hebrew word is exactly the same word that is used to describe people! They’re no longer a sperm but now they’ve grown into little children. They’ve grown into young adults. They’ve grown into older people.

Let’s look at some Scriptures. Genesis 46:6-7 tell us how Jacob was coming down from Canaan to Egypt with all his family. “And they took their cattle, and their goods, which they had gotten in the land of Canaan, and came into Egypt, Jacob, and all his seed [zera] with him: His sons, and his sons' sons with him, his daughters, and his sons' daughters, and all his seed brought he with him into Egypt.”

When Jacob came down from Egypt, did he come down with little sperms floating down with him? No. Although the Bible uses that word, “seed,” zera, it actually means “sons and daughters and grandchildren.” It’s little ones, and big ones, and adults. God uses the same word. That’s why it is so powerful when we destroy the sperm. There are some methods of contraception that destroy the sperm. We think nothing of it! But God sees beyond where we see. He sees that sperm as a future human being. Therefore, we have to be very careful what we do with the seed.

Let’s look at some other Scriptures, shall we? In Numbers 14:24, talking about Caleb. God says that Caleb “followed Me fully, him will I bring into the land whereinto he went; and his seed [zera] shall possess it.” God is not only wanting to bless Caleb. He wants to bless his future generations! He calls them “seed,” but they’re not little sperms. They’re growing into little children, and bigger children, and moms and dads, and older people. They are possessing the land that he took. This is how God sees it.

Imagine if Caleb lived in this day, and his descendants began to say, “Well, we don’t want to have too many children,” so they’re either having no children, or stopping at their one or two. Well, there wouldn’t be many people possessing the land, would there?

We think of Phinehas. Remember Phinehas? He was the high priest. When they were having that problem with the people of Moab coming in and committing adultery with the children of Israel, oh, there was one couple, a prince of Israel. He brought this Moabite woman into the camp. There they were. They were having sex together, and Phinehas, oh, he was so jealous for his God, and for the holiness of God, that he took a javelin. He went in and put the javelin through both of them.

God was pleased with his stand against evil. It tells us in Numbers 25:12-13, “Behold, I give unto him my covenant of peace: And he shall have it, and his seed,” there’s that word again, zera. “His seed after him, even the covenant of an everlasting priesthood; because he was zealous for his God.” Once again, God was talking about future generations of people. But the word He used is the word that can be used for sperm or for people. God sees them as one. He sees that sperm will one day be a future person.

What about the New Testament? I love that Scripture in Hebrews 7:9-10. It’s talking about Abraham, and how he paid tithes to Melchizedek. But do you remember what it actually says? It’s amazing! It says that Levi, not just Abraham, but Levi . . . Levi, was he a grandson, or great-grandson? Yes, great-grandson!

He wasn’t even a twinkle in Abraham’s eye, but the Bible, the Bible says that Levi, who wasn’t even thought of by Abraham, Levi paid tithes to Melchizedek while he was yet in the loins of Abraham. God saw Levi, and even the descendants of Levi, in the loins of Abraham. God saw before they were even born. God goes even beyond the sperm to see even beyond them. He sees who He had planned to be born. Oh, my. It’s time we got a little bit in sync with God and begin to think how God thinks. Don’t you?

Colin: I do. And I think this is so important here, to regard the seed of man, the sperm of man, as a sacred thing, because with that, God brings forth His own likeness, and His own image through that seed. So, we’re not to treat it as a common thing, and as something to be dispensed with so easily, and to be manipulated and used in a wrong way. It’s very sacred to God. Very sacred to God, and I think it needs to be seen that way, very, very importantly.

Nancy: We see this over and over again, in the Word of God in many instances. I was thinking of another one. Cyrus. Do you remember Cyrus? “King of the four corners of the earth.” King of Persia.” And how God raised him up to be the one to allow the people of Judah to come back to their land?

Cyrus was prophesized. His name was spoken and written in the Bible 100 years before he was even born. He was a heathen king! And yet God spoke, not only that he was going to be born, but his name! It’s just amazing, isn’t it, how God sees. And I think of the church today. We think of the thousands, perhaps millions, of godly seed that God intended to be born to bring forth His image.

Colin: Just discarded!

Nancy: To show forth His salvation and truth to this world. And they are not here because God’s people were deceived and brainwashed. They limited their families. They limited them to maybe one or two which is the norm amongst so many thousands of so-called Christian families today. Oh, so tragic.

Colin: It seems to me, just thinking about it, even as we’re talking here, that even as we, as Christians, regard abortion as a wickedness before God, as something very, very wrong, and very evil, so should we regard the importance of preserving and protecting the sperm and the godly seed, seeing it as an living embryo that can be passed away or something like that, even though they go further  into sin. . . but it has the power within that sperm once it’s linked with the egg of the woman, it has the power to create the image of God and bring it forth into this world. I think, may God help us. Thinking about this, just as we repent of abortion, I think we should also repent of the way we have treated the sperm that God has given to man. It’s to be treated honorably, because it bears within it the potential for the bringing forth of the image of God in the world.

Doesn’t this world need that image? Oh, yes, it does. Why is there not the army of Christians resisting evil today? Because we have refused to have them. Because we’ve had a mindset that really comes straight from the enemy himself. Deceived us with the media, even from the church platform very often. In many, many ways we have been deceived in this manner. We need to come back to it.

Nancy: Oh, I believe this. Oh, I think we need such a revival in this area. I’m thinking of a few years ago, Serene was talking with me on the podcast. I always remember she had her youngest, little Solly, sitting with her. Solly, I think she was about one year old then. She’s now five years old. My, how the time goes!

We were talking about life together, and I remember Serene saying, “Oh, my goodness! Little Solly is here beside me. Imagine if I didn’t have her! It’s just too incredible! And look at her personality. God had a vision for her. Imagine if I had said to God, ‘No, God. I don’t want her. I don’t care for Your desire to have her in eternity with You.’”

And, wow, that’s another powerful thought. When we stop having children, we don’t only just stop one child. We stop a dynasty, a whole dynasty!

Colin: That’s true, yes.

Nancy: Because our children grow up to marry and have children, and their children to marry and have children. We now have many, many great-grandchildren coming on. They are dynasties. But also, the most powerful, powerful thing of allis that when we say no to life, we actually deny a person who God intended to come forth into the world, and not just to this world, but to eternity. We deny them eternity.

You think, “Oh, well, what does that matter? They will never know that they ever were denied it. They never know!” But how can we think like that? Eternity! It is just so glorious. The glories of the eternal world, the glories that are beyond the scope of our human minds to comprehend, why would we want to deprive a child that God would give us of these glories to come? Oh, my!

We have deprived, the Christian church has deprived millions of glory, who could have been in the glorious eternity. Right now, we can never understand how glorious it will be. It will be beyond what our minds can ever, ever imagine. And who would want to stop a child from having the privilege of having eternity with God?

Colin: I notice you have written here, “The devil hates life, and his kingdom is a kingdom of death.” John 10:10 says: “He comes to steal, kill, and destroy.” The anti-life trio. He does this through contraception, sterilization, and abortion.

The devil wants to eliminate life before it’s even conceived. That’s an interesting statement. The devil wants to eliminate life before it’s even conceived through contraception and sterilization. Abortion, then, is just the back-up plan. That’s tragic. It’s the same spirit that tries to stop the seed from being fertilized. It’s the same spirit that wants the baby when it is fertilized, when it’s in the womb, to be destroyed.

Nancy: Yes. It’s time to pray.

Colin: “Lord, Lord, we thank You, that, Lord, You have given to mankind, procreativity, so that, Lord, Your glorious image, in all its fullness, shall be manifested across this world, to push back, to push back all evil and darkness. And Lord, it’s true that the righteous examples of life, as people go forward, Lord, and babies are born and are raised up in a godly home, when they come out of those homes to bring forth Your light and Your glory and to increase the knowledge of the Lord in their generation.

“Here we are, standing in a very, very difficult time, when the world is trying to destroy mankind, to bring down the population of the earth to 500 million from seven billion people, to bring it down. Lord, we see how wicked and how far away man has become. Forgive us, oh Lord, in Jesus’ Name.”

Nancy: Amen.

Blessings from Nancy Campbell

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LIFE TO THE FULL w/ Nancy Campbell

EPISODE 264: It’s Time to Elevate the Role of Husband and Wife, Continued - Part 6

Colin and I share more about marriage—how to guard against a hard heart, how to guard against treachery, and how to guard against dismembering.

Announcer: Welcome to the podcast, Life to The Full, with Nancy Campbell, founder and publisher of Above Rubies.

Nancy Campbell: Hello! Great to be with you once again! Today is podcast 264. We are returning to our series of ELEVATING MARRIAGE. It is time to elevate the home, the family, and marriage. Once again, my husband is with me. He will be with me as we continue this series.

I was going to start today about elevating a specific piece of furniture in our homes. But before we get onto that, I think we need to speak a little bit more about marriage. There’s so much more to say. A few Scriptures that we’d like to bring to you, and, of course, it’s only the Scriptures that are worth talking about. If we were to come here with our own ideas, we wouldn’t be much help to you, would we? Here are just one or two Scriptures and a few thoughts about them.

Matthew 19:8 talks about how hardness of heart is what leads to divorce. And therefore, this is something that we have to watch in our marriage. We can easily get a hard heart. We’ve got to guard that with all our might. It is so important to keep a soft heart to the Lord, a soft heart to God’s Word, a soft heart to people who speak against us, and, of course, most of all, a soft heart to our husbands.

Life’s not perfect and we’re not perfect. I’m not perfect. Our husbands aren’t perfect, so there will be times when they do things or say things that hurt you, that, wow, you’re not happy about. In fact, you can get offended. You may even, if you let your heart get hard, you’ll get bitter and twisted.

But we mustn’t allow that, because if you get offended and you don’t deal with it, offense leads to bitterness, and bitterness leads to hardness, and hardness leads to divorce. That’s the thing that God says is the root cause of divorce. It’s a hard heart. That’s something we have to watch. What do you think about that, Darling?

Colin Campbell: Yes. Hardness of heart, it comes through very deeply. It comes through very defiantly. It can be . . . hardness of heart is like getting across your opinion so strongly but not with a meek spirit. When you have hardness of heart, when you’re retaliating, or coming back, it shows a realm of toughness, perhaps defiance. It’s something that your mind is made up and this is the way you feel about it.

You may even stomp your feet while you’re speaking. You may not, but nevertheless, it’s unfortunate that that should take place. Because it cannot be anything worked out when your heart becomes hardened, or your speech becomes hardened. If your heart is hardened, your face will look hardened, your eyes will look hardened. I think it’s almost like a demonic realm can come right into there and bring about like a wrecking ball.

Nancy: Yes, when you said that, I think of that Scripture in Isaiah 3:9, where it says: “The show of their countenance doth witness against them.” It is true. The heart gets hard. Our face will begin to look hard. Isn’t it sad when you see a woman with a hard face? Oh, it doesn’t even look nice, does it?

Colin: It’s not endearing to anybody when your face gets like an adamant stone. That must be a very, very . . . it’s a stone. It’s an adamant stone. It must be a very hard stone. I think it’s a King James version of that particular mention of stones. It’s hard. It’s like flinty rock, or something. You can’t answer to that. You can’t respond to it, because if you do, you’re going to almost fall into the same trap.

Nancy: Let’s see what Jesus said about it all. I mentioned Matthew chapter 19, but it’s all repeated again in Mark 10:2: “And the Pharisees came to him, and asked him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife?” That means to divorce his wife. Tempting Jesus. “And He answered and said unto them, What did Moses command you? And they said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put her away.” To divorce her. 

“And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept.” For the hardness of your heart! “But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her. And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.”

So, there it is, from the mouth of Jesus. The warning from the Word of God is that we keep soft hearts. If you have been offended, oh, you are hurt by your husband, your heart is tending to get bitter . . . get down on your knees. Let the Holy Spirit work in your heart. It’s only the Holy Spirit who can change our hearts and turn our hearts around. He can make our hard hearts into soft hearts. Seek with all your heart to keep a soft heart.

That’s something that, even as we’re mothering, we need to teach our children how to keep a soft heart. How to respond, even to correction and to instruction with a soft heart. It’s a habit that we need to get into all our lives.

Of course, as I said before, there will be times when it can happen in your marriage, even when your husband says something that cuts across your spirit. It’s like an arrow that goes deep into your heart. Well, once again, get before the Lord, and do what the Bible tells you to do. And that is, instead of reacting with getting bitter and a hard heart, to react with blessing.

PAY BACK WITH A BLESSING

That’s an amazing thing in the Bible. There are many, many principles, kingdom principles which are so opposite to us. They’re the opposite to the way we feel. They’re opposite to the way we work.

One of these principles is blessing when people curse you and say evil things about you. We read that in Matthew chapter five and also in 1 Peter 3:8. The New Living Translation says: “Don’t repay evil for evil. Don’t retaliate with insults when people insult you. Instead, this is what God has called you to do, and He will grant you His blessing.”

When someone has hurt you, or when even your husband has said hurtful words, you don’t feel like blessing him, do you? No, you feel mad. You feel hurt. You feel, oh, just cut up. But the Bible tells us to pay them back. Well, that’s what we really feel like! “I’m going to pay them back!” No, we pay them back with a blessing.

Another translation says: “Retaliate.” How? “Retaliate with a blessing.”

The Knox Translation says: “Not repaying hard words with hard words, but blessing those who curse you.” I know that is the opposite to how you feel, but it’s a Kingdom principle, and it works. God’s Kingdom principles work.

When you begin to bless, to pay back with a blessing, to instead of retaliating with hard words, you retaliate with soft words. Or maybe no words at all if you can’t say soft words. You will find that God will begin to work. God works when we obey His principles.

Colin: Yes. If you’re really wanting the debate or the discussion to turn around, to be a blessing to you, we have to be very careful about keeping a meek spirit, a soft spirit. Because your hardness of mouth or conversation is indicative of what is going on in your spirit. You have to be quiet in your spirit.

You have to purposely take out resistance in your spirit or come against it. You can then begin to speak. Because once you make strong statements, it’s very hard for the other person not to react with strong statements. You’re never going to get anywhere. Somebody said, “You will never win an argument.” That is the truth. You never do.

But if you speak kind words, entreating words, and soft words, they will come back to you. The person that you’re speaking to may be your husband or maybe your wife. Also, you will have this opportunity to feel that it’s worth speaking back in that soft spirit, that meek spirit. It’s so important, it’s so very important. We really do need to realize this is the new nature. This is the Christ nature inside of us.

They wondered, as Scripture says, the people who heard Jesus speak, “wondered at the gracious words that proceeded from His mouth.” They were amazed at those gracious words. Even though He was often in a hostile environment and perhaps the scribes and the Pharisees were really denouncing the people, making them feel guilty, and heavy and hard words they were receiving from them. Perhaps dominating words from the scribes and the Pharisees, but Jesus was totally different.

Nancy: Amen! And now, there’s another Scripture I want to give you. When we were last speaking about marriage, I gave you some Scriptures about the exclusivity of marriage. I forgot this one. I want to give it to you. It’s found in Proverbs 5 in the context of talking about marriage, specifically about the husband.

YOUR VERY OWN

It says in Proverbs 5:15: “Drink waters out of thine own cistern, and running waters out of thine own well . . . Let them be only thine own, and not strangers' with thee. Let thy fountain be blessed: and rejoice with the wife of thy youth. Let her be as the loving hind and pleasant roe; let her breasts satisfy thee at all times; and be thou ravished always with her love.”

Do you notice there the word “own”? It’s very exclusive. “Drink waters out of thine own cistern, and running waters out of thine own well. Let them be only thy own.” Once again, we see the exclusivity of marriage.

We read in 1 Corinthians 7:2: “Let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.” But I did talk about that last time, so I just wanted to give you those Scriptures.

Now we’re going to go on to another Scripture, a very powerful Scripture about marriage, in Malachi 2. And we will have a few thoughts to share with you on these Scriptures. Let me read them first.

Malachi 2:14: “The Lord hath been witness between thee and the wife of thy youth, against whom thou hast dealt treacherously. Yet is she thy companion, and the wife of thy covenant. And did not he make one? Yet had he the residue of the spirit. And wherefore one? That he might seek a godly seed. Therefore take heed to your spirit, and let none deal treacherously against the wife of his youth. For the LORD, the God of Israel, saith that he hateth putting away.” He hates divorce! “For one covereth violence with his garment, saith the LORD of hosts: therefore, take heed to your spirit, that ye deal not treacherously.” Did you notice that in those few verses, the word “treacherously” is mentioned three times?

Colin: It’s amazing.

Nancy: That is pretty serious, isn’t it? Three times the word “treacherously” is mentioned in the context of a marriage splitting up.

Colin: Do you want me to say something here?

Nancy: I thought you were going to say something.

Colin: Well, I notice that “Beware of your spirit.” How is your spirit reacting? I noticed when you were saying that, how important it is to keep your spirit right, so that you will treat your wife as your companion. If she’s your companion . . . before you got married, she certainly was your companion. The marriage wouldn’t have happened, I’m sure, if she was not your companion.

But when you have a companion, even outside of marriage, if you have a companion with friends, or lady friends if you’re speaking of women, or to men. You treat them respectfully and you talk encouragingly to your companion. You want to talk regularly to your companion. You can’t wait to talk again to your companion. This is the way we are to view our spouse, whether it’s a husband or a wife. We’re to view them as our number one companion.

Nancy: Yes. This word “treacherously,” in the Hebrew it’s the word bagad. It means “pillage, to deal deceitfully, treacherously, unfaithfully, to offend, to transgress.” Here it’s talking about the husband treacherously dealing with his wife.

Then we go over to Jeremiah 3:20. Here it’s talking about the wife. It says: “Surely as a wife treacherously departeth from her husband, so have ye dealt treacherously with me, O house of Israel, saith the LORD.” God and Israel were a type of marriage. When Israel departed from the Lord and served other gods, He said, “You are just like a treacherous wife.” It is used for both the husband and the wife.

So, once again, we have to look upon marriage as God sees it. When He put Adam and Eve together, He said He made them one flesh. When He puts every married couple together, they become one. When they are separated, it’s a treacherous thing in God’s eyes.

I think, though, it comes back, not to great big things, but very little things. I think everything in marriage starts with little things. In fact, The Message paraphrase of this Scripture says: “His Spirit inhabits even the smallest details of marriage.” I think that is very powerful.

God is watching over the smallest details and it’s even the little things in our marriage that can gradually lead to hardness of heart and even to the treacherousness of a oneness that is pulled apart. Often, we don’t realize the impact of that. I think if only we could be aware that God is watching every little detail, in every area, in our sexual union, our daily living, our attitudes, every interaction with one another. It’s all adding up to a beautiful marriage, or to one that is crumbling. What would you have to say, Darling?

Colin: To bring about a treacherous word or acting treacherously, obviously with treacherousness, being treacherous, is, you’re cutting off. You’re actually acting very severely and it’s destroying. What is treachery? It’s a very strong, strong word. I think this can happen.

We are to speak in a way that will not be accusatory. I think this is one thing that really causes a lot of problems in marriage. I think we’ve even been challenged by it ourselves. When my wife says, “You’re accusing me.” I might say, “No, you are accusing me!” So, we have to be very, very careful as we say our words and speak towards one another that this doesn’t come across as accusing. He is the accuser of the brethren. The devil is the accuser of the brethren. We don’t need to be joining his camp in accusing one another also.

Rather, if we have a question relating to something that’s gone missing, that’s usually where we can get ourselves into a little bit of a tight spot. If something goes missing, and then I can think, “Well, I’m being accused,” and my wife will think, well, she’s being accused about it. We don’t really let it get to us in any big heavy way, but we have to watch what we say.

It’s the way we say it, I think, that can be interpreted as being accusative which leads to a treacherous response. We have to be so wise about these little things. I think what I’m talking about can be happening daily with people just accusing one another and then finally it leads to harsher actions because people can’t tolerate it. They can’t stand it, they get tired of it, they get worn out with it. Then they’re done with it. That’s a treacherous act.

Nancy: Yes. Another thought from this passage, which actually comes from The Message, which is a paraphrase really. But often it has some beautiful thoughts. It says here: “I hate divorce, says the God of Israel. I hate the violent dismembering of the one-flesh marriage. So, watch yourselves. Don’t let your guard down. Don’t cheat.”

I began to think of this word “dismembering.” Wow! That’s a very powerful word. It’s not something that happens all at once. Usually, it’s little by little. It’s dismembering from being something that is whole and one. Marriage is meant to be whole.

I think of the illustration of a baby in the womb. A baby begins with two. It begins with sperm, and it begins with the egg. The sperm is fused together with the egg. Therefore, it becomes one and conception happens. A new baby is growing because life begins at conception. There were two, the sperm and the egg, but then, when they are made one together, they are one. They are one new life. When a couple are put together in marriage, they become a new oneness.

But what happens with abortion? The devil hates new life. He hates life. He is the destroyer. He comes to rob, kill, and destroy. Sadly, so many precious babies in the womb, through abortion, are dismembered, limb by limb, in the womb. That is really the bottom line. It’s the work of Satan. He is in the business of dismembering that which was one, that which was whole. He wants to dismember it, like he has done to so many precious, precious babies in the womb.

But then, it happens in marriage.

Colin: Yes, it happens in marriage. This is quite an interesting point that you’re bringing out here, because we can say, “Well, it’s divorce,” but do we realize that it’s actually dismembering the one-flesh that God has brought us to in a marriage? When we make that covenant, and to take that on further, and we become one flesh, that’s what happens. We become one flesh through the intimacy. God doesn’t want that to become dismembered, be cut away.

Here it says: “dismembering of the one flesh of marriage” that particular translation says. I think we have to see it that God hates it. That’s why He hates it. There’s got to be something pretty. pretty bad about that that would cause God to say, “I hate divorce.”

He hates it because He’s joined us together. He's created that situation whereby we are linked together, and we are joined together. Then we go about dismembering it. It’s like what happens to the babies in the womb. In abortion they literally dismember the baby. Well, we’re doing this with marriage as well.

Nancy: Yes, and it starts in little ways. Every negative word, and every negative action, is a little “dismembering.” Instead of allowing that to happen, we’ve got to remember, we are always to be building. We’re continuing to enhance our oneness, rather than dismembering.

Colin: I think, too, that we need to realize how God really sees marriage, so that we will not, like they’re having in many courts today, have what they call “quick divorce.” That’s disgusting to think like that when God hates that. We need to ask the Lord to give us the same hatred that He has towards it so that we’ll be much more careful how we act in our marriage, so that we’re not doing that. How we speak in our marriage, and the attitudes we have.

Nancy: Yes! Oh, I can’t even believe how time has gone! There are lots more thoughts on this Scripture, so I think we will do another podcast continuing a few thoughts about this Scripture because it is so powerful.

But we do pray that the Lord will pour out His blessings upon you today, and upon your marriage. That if there is any little dismembering going on, even in a little way, and you’re not feeling that oneness together, don’t let it carry on. Do something about it. Take a positive action, and ask the Holy Spirit to come and flood your heart so you can forgive, and you can bless, and you can begin to speak a positive word of blessing even when you’ve been accused and hurt.

Colin: Because Jesus was accused, over and over and over, in the most violent times. But He didn’t allow it to get to His heart and change His salvation, and change His grace towards the people who were accusing Him. We need to keep that.

I think it’s so very, very important, especially for women, and especially for the husband speaking to them and she becomes very hurt. They really get extremely hurt. Constantly that way, a man’s got to be so, so careful that he’s walking on eggshells around her. That’s not the way God wants it to be.

Nancy: You pray. We’ve got to end.

Colin: “Lord, we thank You for this wonderful time together. It’s a very, very important subject. We pray that, Lord, there will be no dismembering. There will be no more, Lord. You will help us to fight for our marriages, to resist the temptations of the enemy to destroy them, to dismember them. In the Name of Jesus, Amen.”

Nancy: Amen.

Ezekiel 36:26: “A new heart also will I give you, and new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stoney heart out of your flesh, and will give you an heart of flesh.”

Blessings from Nancy Campbell

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LIFE TO THE FULL w/ Nancy Campbell

EPISODE 263: Life’s Not Perfect – What Can We Do?

Pam Fields joins me today as we discuss the nitty gritty of life. Many mothers feel as though they are failing. They feel overwhelmed. We begin weak and stumbling but we can finish strong. God gives us keys to have a better end than our beginning!

Announcer: Welcome to the podcast, Life to The Full, with Nancy Campbell, founder and publisher of Above Rubies.

Nancy Campbell: Hello, everyone! Today I have another friend with me, Pam Fields. Pam has done podcasts with me before. At the moment she is staying with me for a few days.

Pam is actually writing a book about my life! She got this vision to do this, and I said to her, “I can’t imagine anyone wanting to read it,” but she has this vision. She has written the basis for the book, and now we’re looking over it, seeing where we’re going from here. Do you want to say anything about it, Pam?

Pam Fields: Well, I am just so relieved that you let the cat out of the bag!

Nancy: Oh. Well, they’re not meant to?

Pam: Oh, you’re fine. I’ve been waiting for your lead. I’ve been so excited about this project, and it’s been . . .

Nancy: How long?

Pam: So far, it’s been two years in the making.

Nancy: Oooooh!

Pam: We’re making a little bit of headway. There’s been a few friends praying for this project, because I couldn’t keep it a complete secret. But now we can ask everybody who’s listening to pray for this project because I think that families need to hear the testimony of Colin and Nancy, and your lives.

It’s so beautiful to be in your home and to see this picture of Colin esteeming and honoring you, and you, in your relationship with him. I know that it’s something that . . .  there’s a lot of us who have had this story to be able to be in your home and to receive your hospitality. But it’s not practical that everybody can come here. So, I hope that by sharing your story, and a little bit of your history, that people get a glimpse into your home and to see the truth of your life lived out. It’s been a beautiful thing to watch.

Nancy: Well, I am just amazed that Pam has taken on this project. She’s put a lot of time into it. I do pray that it will bless you when we can eventually get it organized. I think the big thing is, Pam is here, and wanting to get our immediate family together, our children, and talk over a few things with them before she moves on to the next part of this project. But getting them together, that’s a big thing, isn’t it? [laughter] So, we’re working on that. We’ll see how that will go.

While I’m sitting here, actually, I’ve got my prayer bracelets on. You have too!

Pam: I have them on.

Nancy: How wonderful! I wonder if you have ever heard the vision of Pam’s prayer bracelets for praying for your family. You did this podcast with me a long time ago. Do you know it was podcast number 30?

Pam: Yes, it was.

Nancy: Can you believe it? Now we’re up to podcast 263 today! So, it was a long time ago. But you can go back. Just go down the list, and find and hit number 30, and you can hear this wonderful vision about prayer bracelets and how you can pray for your family. Maybe you could just mention quickly about it now, so they can get a little idea. Then they can learn more if they go to the podcast.

Pam: Sure. There’s a fast snippet also on my website, and on your website.

Nancy: That’s right!

Pam: There are some articles they can find, either with aboverubies.org, or tendingfields.net. I will say, I do think I have if you sign up for my email list, I think it’s going to automatically send an instruction sheet on how to actually make these prayer bracelets. If I’ve spoken wrongly, somebody contact me, and I will make sure you get that.

But anyway, the idea is . . . I’m the mom of nine . . .  I realized when you were speaking, Nancy, that I was not being as diligent in prayer as I wanted to be. I needed something in front of my face to remind me, something really tangible. What I did was make these elasticized bracelets with alphabet beads and I put the names of my children, one on each bracelet.

In the morning I will start out with all of them on my left wrist. As I pray for each child, I move them to my right wrist. I keep track, because you get going in your day, and you’re so busy sometimes, we just get pulled away by those that we want to be praying for and loving on. It’s hard to stay diligent and I needed that reminder.

Nancy: Oh, yes! And it is so wonderful. I noticed you haven’t got any on your right wrist yet. [laughter]

Pam: Well, sometimes I also keep them on throughout the day because I do want to continue, as things develop with our children. I don’t even want to move it to the right. I want to be in continual prayer, depending on the day.

Nancy: I’ve only got one on my right wrist yet! I have a lot to get through. When Pam came up with this vision, I thought, “Oh, that is so wonderful!” But, oh, I can’t do it. How would I get the names of all my family—and our immediate children, and their spouses, and our 52 grandchildren, and now all these great-grandchildren coming in? I wouldn’t have room on my arm!

But then I thought, “Wow! I know what I need to do is just have one name for the family, and then I can be praying for all the members of that particular family.” I was lazy. Well, I wasn’t lazy. I just don’t get time for so much! I asked Pam, “Would you make me a set?” And she did. I am so blessed.

Now, Pam also does her own podcast, which is called “The Mom Next Door.” You will love going to listen to that. Tell the ladies about that, Pam.

Pam: When you type in “The Mom Next Door,” please add on “Stories of Faith,” because there is one out there that is maybe not one that’s going to have the same content. So, make sure you add . . .

Nancy: Oh, wow. That’s a bit like me, because people will go to AboveRubies.com. Oh my, that’s not a good one to go to. You’ve got to go to AboveRubies.org, O-R-G.

Pam: “The Mom Next Door; Stories of Faith” is available wherever podcasts are, just like this one. I just met so many amazing women through my life of motherhood, and honestly, working with the Above Rubies retreats in Oregon when I lived there have So many women have extraordinary stories of what God has done in their lives. Sometimes they think we still, because we’re not famous, we don’t have a platform, then maybe our stories aren’t significant, or don’t matter, and they do.

What I have wanted to do is create a platform to share with other women, and say, “If you have a story of faith, if God has done something amazing in your life, then I want to invite you to sit with me, via Zoom, or in person if you’re close. I want to hear what God has done. Let’s give testimony.”

I was inspired by the Sunday testimony time at the Above Rubies retreat. We’re called in so many places, especially many places in Psalms, to stand up and share what the Lord has done. So that’s it. If you need a word of encouragement, if you want to hear other stories of faith, then that’s a great place to tune in and hear from other moms.

Nancy: Yes, and I am so glad that Pam is doing this. Pam has been coming to Above Rubies retreats for how many years? Can you count them?

Pam: Well, when we were in Oregon, I think we ran them for about 12 years, perhaps.

Nancy: It was before that. You were coming up to Washington.

Pam: Right. Right.

Nancy: You just had young children when you first started.

Pam: Right.

Nancy: Pam has imbibed the blessing of motherhood and the years have gone on. As the years went on, I could see that she had so much to give, an encourager. You’ve got to be an older woman sharing with the young women. You are doing that today. It’s so wonderful.

Do you have a question for me, Pam? You said, “I think, Nancy, we should do a podcast about this.” Do you want to ask me?

Pam: Well, I don’t even know if it was as much of a question or a conversation prompt. I’m a real auditory learner and I process things as I talk. I know I’m probably not the only one working through this in my life, but sometimes I struggle with that line of vulnerability.

I always want to be speaking positively and speaking truth and life. I want to represent Christ well and I want to represent my family well. I want to show the good and the joyful, whatever is good and excellent and praiseworthy. I want to be thinking and talking about those things and speaking in Psalms and hymns and spiritual songs.

But then, sometimes life doesn’t look beautiful. Sometimes there are some things in my home, or in the homes of extended family, or as I start to interview women and talk about things, sometimes when we’re not recording, sometimes it’s before I hit “Record,” or after. I find that we’re struggling with some really difficult things. I think we don’t want to necessarily even tell our children some of these hard things.

But I think it’s also in the overcoming of those struggles, and of those very, real, hard things, where our testimony is developed as we overcome and as we live in victory. If you meet me today, you’ll meet this mom and wife, homeschooling, doing all these things, being busy. Someone might look at me, and I’ve heard people say, “Well, you have this great life. You have this great family,” with the assumption that this is where I’ve always been. This is where I’ve come from.

But I think if we peeled back the story of every woman, no matter where you are, you peel back the story, and there’s more to it. Either in their history, or in their today. Again, I don’t really know the question, there, but I think we need to talk about sharing some of our struggles and giving glory to God for the victory. But yet, doing it in such a way that preserves the integrity of our homes and shares only as much of that story. Because when we’re telling our own story, we’re also sharing somebody else’s story.

I don’t know where you want to go with that, Nancy. Those are some things in my brain that I process, and you speak so much of what is true and lovely and good. Sometimes I might feel a little discouraged that, “Oh, I’m just not there today. I’m in a time of lament today.” What do you have to say?

Nancy: Yes. That is interesting. By the way, I should just say, as we move on to chatting with Pam, that we haven’t yet finished our series about elevating the home. There are a few more things that I’d like to talk with Colin about, and with you. So, we’ll continue those. But we’re going to interrupt today because Pam is here. It’s so great having you here, Pam.

I guess I will have to confess that that is true, that I am not one to share about troubles and negativities and things. I love to share the vision that God has for us and share the positive things of the Word. Also, I guess I have been blessed in that I have had a blessed life. I come from a godly generation. Whereas I know that you have come from a very messed-up situation in your family life. If everybody really knew your story, they would be amazed to see who you are today! Yes?

Pam: Well, when I even look behind you, there are pictures on the wall of your father. I noticed earlier; I think one of them is a reprint from the newspaper. Your father was in the newspaper, and you stand up under this champion and so many successes. My dad was also in the newspaper, but it was the story of an arrest. Some really dark things, right? That is the case. Every person has their history and their story. We all come into our parenting and our motherhood from these different places.

Nancy: Exactly. But this is the amazing thing. You came in from a completely messed-up home. You could still be today a totally messed-up woman. But you came to the Lord as a teenager. That wasn’t all. You have sought to press into God’s truth and take hold of it and put it into your life. You’ve become an overcomer. The wonderful thing is that in Revelation, it talks about . . . to every church it gave the promise to the overcomers of what they would receive. Now, to be an overcomer, you’ve got to be able to overcome things.

Pam: Right!

Nancy: And I think those who perhaps have more to overcome in their lives, they’re going to get more overcoming crowns! I think all of life is overcoming. Even though I am blessed to have a godly tradition and godly heritage in my life. I haven’t come from this terrible family that drowned or anything.

But still, we are all human. We all have our old nature, and we all have to learn how to overcome, no matter who we are. I came into motherhood and into marriage, yes, embracing it all. But still, I came in with my “me” attitudes, and my selfish attitudes. I had to learn along the way.

THE “ME” MENTALITY SPOILS EVRYTHING

I can remember many nights as a young married woman, crying into my pillow because, “Poor me!” Oh, I was so full of self-pity! Goodness me! I look back now, and think, “How ridiculous!” Because I was just so filled with “ME!” and “Poor Me!” And I wasn’t being treated right, and I had to put up with all this! So much of our lives, no matter what background you come from, can be just about “me”! And it’s “me” that spoils life! It really is!

When we have this attitude, we’re not going to be living in victory. We’re not going to be overcoming. I had to learn, little by little, how to overcome in my daily life, and how to live in the joy of the Lord, how to overcome problems. Of course, the principles of how to overcome, of how to live in victory are in the Word of God.

Pam: Absolutely.

Nancy: It’s taking hold of them. It’s no matter who we are, we have to learn to take hold of these principles.

Pam: Yes, for sure. It’s that process that we all go through, no matter what point of origin we have. It’s that spiritual “poor me” sin. Colin was talking earlier about surrender. It is that constant, constant coming to Him, and being refined by the Lord.

I even see it. You and Colin, in your eighties, you’re not saying, “I’ve learned it all. I’ve retained it all.” You’re constantly going back to the Word and digging in for those nuggets, and saying, “Lord, what will You teach me? What do You want me to know? Refine me and make me more like You.”

THE END CAN BE BETTER THAN THE BEGINNING

Nancy: Yes. Yes. That is so true, I think. I love that Scripture, “Better is the end of a thing than the beginning thereof.” That’s found in Ecclesiastes 7:8. But it’s so true. We come into motherhood, and sometimes when we first come in, we’re struggling. We come into marriage and we can be struggling. We’re learning, little by little, but it’s only the beginning! Oh, goodness me! There’s a lifetime ahead!

Now, we are getting . . .  I’m not saying it’s the end because I’ve got so much to do yet . . . but perhaps getting closer. We are in our eighties, but still, oh, goodness me, we still have so much life to live! I still have so many books to write and so many more magazines to publish! And so many more lives to touch! But I see now the end instead of the beginning because I have, little by little, learned His principles.

No matter who we are, or where we’ve come from, whether we are blessed to have a godly heritage or whether we’ve come from the pits, it does not matter. Because we still have to take hold of those principles. We still have to deal with our old nature. When we come to Christ, He gives us this new nature. It is “Christ in you, the hope of glory.” It’s learning, and I still have to apply this every day.

But it becomes more and more a habit of your life, where in every situation you face, you either are going to yield to the old nature, to “me,” how I want it to be in “my way, thank you” or we yield to the nature of Christ. We yield to His life, which is a life of His love, and joy, and forgiveness, and long-suffering, and walking in His rest, and in His victory. It’s only in Christ. I don’t have it in myself.

I’ve always loved that Scripture in Philemon. Or Philemon? People say it in different ways. Philemon 6: “That the communication of your faith may be effectual.” That’s what we want. We want it to be effectual. How? “By the acknowledging of every good thing, which is in you, in Christ Jesus.” It’s coming to the knowledge and understanding of all the good things that are in Christ, and knowing and acknowledging and confessing that, “OK, if Christ is in me, all these good things are in me.”

Yes, they’re in Christ, but because He dwells in me, THEY ARE IN ME, so I can walk in those good things. I can walk in His joy when I’m actually feeling lousy. I can walk in His victory when I’m feeling so depressed, and I can walk in His longsuffering when I want to blow my top! It’s yielding to His life or yielding to my old nature. We learn, if we keep seeking to do that, we can get into the habit of that in our lives.

I find now, if I look back, I can remember how little things seemed like such a big thing. They’ve been like a mountain. “How am I going to survive this? How am I going to get through this?” But it was all because I didn’t understand the fullness of “Christ in me, the hope of glory,” and that I can live in victory.

But as I have, through the years, begun to apply God’s Word and His principles daily in my life, now I can look at bigger things, and although, because this is something new we’re bringing out . . . “OK, Nancy, people just hear . . . OK, all about your wonderful life  . . . you’re not telling them any bad things.”

Pam: Yeah, yeah, yeah.,

Nancy: Well, yes. We do have things that we face. We face many difficult things in our lives. But I haven’t told them to the world because, is that going to bless anybody? No. Even now, I can face pretty difficult things, but they are bigger things than perhaps I’ve faced in a younger life when I would have thought they were bigger. But now, I don’t really find them a huge thing at all because I have learned to take them to the Lord.

Instead of going down to the pits, and “Oh, God, how are we going to survive?” I’m saying, “Lord, thank You. Thank You that You are in control. I thank You, Lord. My life is in Your hands. I thank You that You have got this, and I can trust You. I thank You that You are with me. I thank You, Lord, that You are in this situation, and we can trust You, Lord God. I put my trust in You.” When I do that, well, am I still going to be in a state? No! I’m trusting God.

BUILD YOUR FAITH MUSCLES

Pam: Well, you’ve been building your faith muscles through the years. A lot of times, when we are starting to work out, we’re a little flimsy, right? Through a continual process, and working out, those muscles are built just like in a physical sense. Our faith has to do some stretching.

There’s also a verse that talks about, “Do not despise small beginnings.” I don’t know exactly the reference on that, but I could look back, and I could say, “I could get tripped up on this little issue,” right? Or I could have a little issue in front of me, or even a big issue. Each one of those is an opportunity to grow in my faith and to learn to trust God a little bit more.

I’m in my fifties now, so here we get to this point where I can look back and say, “I’m not the same woman who called you up when I was a new mom,” and called you probably in the middle of the night because we were in different time zones, and cried to you, and said, “But Nancy . . .”

I’m not that same person because of the people that I’ve encountered, and the time spent in the Word, and time spent in prayer. That faith muscle has been built.

I think that would be what we want. We want people to hear that, that it doesn’t matter where you come from, you just be faithful now, and keep moving forward and growing in your faith.

Nancy: Amen. I love those lines which say, “Trust Him.” How does it go now? I had it in my mind. Let’s see.

“Trust Him when dark days assail thee.

Trust Him when thy faith is small.

Trust Him when to simply trust Him

Is the hardest thing of all.”

I love those lines. If we can learn to trust Him . . . sometimes we are feeling so weak, but we can set our trust in Him, in the situation we’re facing, and we confess it, “Lord, I trust You.” It’s amazing what confession does. When you speak it out, “Lord, I trust You.” It brings that faith and that confidence in Him.

I remember one time, years ago, my sons Stephen and Wes manage The Newsboys. There was a season when they decided to take out their own big tents, rather than go into the auditoriums. That took so much of their money. So, they said, “Oh, we’ll do our own thing.” They designed these big tents, and they went out. It was like a traveling circus because of doing that. They had to take their trucks with their own food and their own toilets and their own this and that.

But they got out to Texas at one place. Huge storms came in and ripped one tent to pieces. They went to another place, and storms came again, and ripped it to pieces. They actually lost millions of dollars.

I remember my son coming in. I said to him, “Oh, Wes, how are you getting on with all these problems out there?” He just looked at me, and said, “Mother, I don’t have problems. I just have challenges!” I have always remembered that and taken it as an encouragement to myself. We don’t ever have to have problems, really, only challenges, which we can bring to God. He is bigger, He is bigger than any challenge that we have.

Pam: Amen!

Nancy: I love these Scriptures, Philippians 3. Actually, we could read from verses 12-15: “Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect.” And you were saying to me a little while ago, Pam, “Oh, some people read your stuff, and they listen to you, and they think your life is perfect.” But no, none of us is perfect. And life isn’t perfect. No! It doesn’t matter who we are. Life is not perfect, and it doesn’t always go just how we want it to go. But in whatever happens, we can trust God.

And here Paul is saying, “I’m not already perfect yet, no. But I follow after.” Don’t you love that? “But I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind.”

Some of you, you do have sad backgrounds, difficult situations you’ve come from. You may be facing difficult situations now. I want to encourage you. God is with you. He will not forsake you. You can trust Him. Lift your eyes up to Him. Look to Him. Don’t focus all your attention on the problem. It only takes you down to the pits. Keep your eyes on the Lord.

As Paul said: “Forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.”

I love this translation. Well, actually, a number of translations say the very same thing. “Forgetting what is behind, and straining forward,” straining forward, “to what lies ahead, I am pressing toward the goal for the prize to which God through Christ Jesus calls us upward.” The

J. B. Phillips translation says: “I leave the past behind with hands outstretched to whatever lies ahead. I go straight for the goal.” Isn’t that good?

Pam: And we need to remember those Scriptures, and the places where the Lord is encouraging our hearts to step forward, and to step forward in faith and truth and seeking out the victory. Sharing our testimony and that victory of life in Him, because the enemy wants to get in there. He wants to put shame on us. When we listen to the enemy, and we allow him to use that thing against us, he will watch us, and try to nullify our voice.

You mentioned the perfect family. I think in some regards, someone could look at me, and they could say, “Well, you have a perfect family.” I know I don’t, right? If I’m hearing all the time the same of the enemy saying, “Your family’s not perfect. You guys have some issues. You know, there was this time . . . or you know, there was this certain struggle. . .” then I’m going to be afraid to speak truth. I can’t be. I need to be called out to speak truth and to share what the Lord is doing.

The enemy is a trickster. We know that. He wants to use that against us. I think it’s OK to be vulnerable and say, you know, my family doesn’t come from an area of perfection, and none of us will, because “all have sinned and fallen short.” We’re all learning things. In all these different stages of life, we learn more.

I would also like to encourage women to, how do you do this? How do you parent imperfectly, but yet, with excellence in mind? Sometimes I even a few times thought, “Nancy has such a high ideal and everything’s so beautiful. My family’s doing it wrong, or I’m doing it wrong, or I don’t live up.” But God expects us to have troubles. That’s why He provided for our troubles.

I think we all need to be encouraged to be vulnerable in a safe way, and to an extent, to remind our children in our home that Momma messes up sometimes. Mommy and Daddy have made a great decision here, but maybe not such a great one here. Maybe that’s why we need Jesus. I see it even more with my teenagers. I wish I would have been maybe a little more vulnerable like that when my older children were younger. To say, we’re all going to fail. We’re all going to have things we struggle with. That’s OK, because that why we need Jesus.

DON’T DESPAIR! IT’S NOT THE END YET!

Nancy: Maybe there are some of you listening, and you have members in your family who are not walking the way that you’re wanting them to walk in God. But it’s not the end yet. Nothing is the end until we meet Jesus! We keep trusting God.

We keep praying, because that is so important to be praying parents. Even prodigals cannot get away from the prayers of their parents. Be encouraged. The end is not yet. Better is the end of a thing than the beginning! That’s what God says!

Maybe some of you have come into motherhood, and even into marriage, and you’re struggling, and you feel a failure. Oh, goodness me! I can remember feeling a failure. Oh, yes! But you’re learning! You’re learning as you go, and you’re going to get stronger.

Oh, I’m thinking now of that wonderful Scripture in Hebrews 11. Can I go to it as we’re closing? Hebrews 11. It talks about the men and women of faith who “Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.” (How to read in this light . . . was that right?) Yes, but isn’t that an incredible testimony? These great men of faith, wow! They ended up so strong they “waxed valiant in the fight and turned to flight the armies of the aliens.” But how did they start? Weak.

Pam: And whose power do they do that by? They don’t do it by their own power.

Nancy: No. And how did they get stronger? They “waxed valiant in the fight.” They faced struggles. They faced issues where they had to fight the enemy. They had to stand up against this evil. They had to take a stand. They had to take God’s stand. As they did it, they started out weak. We all started out weak, but we can wax valiant in the fight as we continue this fight.

WE WILL EITHER COME UNDER OUR STRUGGLES OR OVER THE TOP OF THEM

As Paul said: “Fight the good fight of faith.” We are in a fight. This world that we live in is a struggle. The end will be the crowns for the overcomers. We’re either going to come under our struggles and the challenges we face, or by not in our strength, but by trusting God, walking in His principles, living in His Word, we are going to overcome.

Revelation 12:11: “And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony.” They had to confess the truth, speak it out: “and they loved not their lives unto the death.” They received these overcoming crowns. We’re not going to have them unless we’ve had to overcome. We’re all in this overcoming business, aren’t we?

Pam: Yep. The other Scripture that came to mind when you were saying that is the one that says: “When we’ve done everything to stand, stand firm yet.”

YOU WILL BECOME STRONGER AND STRONGER

Nancy: Yes, that is Ephesians 6. Let’s read it. We want to encourage all you wonderful wives and mothers today. Oh, and if you are feeling a bit weak, and you’re feeling like a failure, and you’re down under instead of up over, look, be encouraged! It’s not the end yet. Oh no! You can wax valiant in the fight. Don’t despair that you’re starting off weak. You’re going to get stronger, and stronger, and stronger as you trust in the Lord. Amen!

Ephesians 6:13: “Wherefore take unto you the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day,” which we are living now. “And having done all, to stand.” We don’t cave in. We don’t fall over. We’re going to stand strong on His Word.

And we need that Word even for this hour, this evil day in which we’re living, where we’re facing so much wickedness, so much pressure against the family. Oh, goodness, doesn’t it break your heart to hear of all the sex trafficking, to hear of the transgenderism, the wooing of our precious young people to change into something else that God did not create them to be?

STAND AGAINST EVEIL AND KEEP STANDING

Oh, how we have to stand! We’ve got to stand against the evil, stand against it. No matter what persecution we get, we keep standing! Amen? And you’re going to keep trusting. Yes, trusting in His promises. Be encouraged, precious, precious wives, precious mothers. Oh, you’re feeling weak. Don’t despair. You’re going to get stronger and stronger in the Lord. You wax valiant in the fight, until one day you will be turning enemies. Wow! You’ll be turning them back! Amen?

Pam: Amen.

Nancy: All right. Shall we pray?

“Father, we thank You so much that we can come to You, that You are our source. We thank You that You dwell in our hearts, and that we can yield to Your life. We can yield to your victorious life that dwells in us.

“Father, I pray for every wife and mother listening today. I pray that You will encourage them. Oh, God, some of them feel down in the pit. But Lord, we thank You that You are the One Who brings us out of the miry clay. You set our feet upon a Rock. You give a song, Lord, not only to sing, but that everyone will see. We thank You, Lord. I pray that You will bring mothers, Lord, out of their miry clay today, out of their pits, out of their weakness. Lord, let them put their eyes upon You.

“Lord, I pray that You will help them and make them stronger in the fight, Lord God. Oh, that You will pour out Your blessing upon them. Give them strength and give them hope. Oh, God, give them vision. Lord, bring them into a new place, from feeling like caving in, Lord, to standing strong. Lord, even when everything comes against them, that Lord, they will still stand, holding onto You, and onto Your precious Word. In the Name of Jesus. Amen.”

Psalm 40:1-3: “I waited patiently for the LORD; and he inclined unto me and heard my cry. He brought me up also out of a horrible pit, out of the miry clay, and set my feet upon a rock, and established my goings. And he hath put a new song in my mouth, even praise unto our God, many shall SEE IT, and fear, and shall trust in the LORD.”

Blessings from Nancy Campbell

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LIFE TO THE FULL w/ Nancy Campbell

EPISODE 262: It’s Time to Elevate Home and Family, Part 5

Colin and I continue to talk about elevating marriage. It has been devalued in our society, and it’s time to get it back to where God has placed it. It is a sacred institution. We must honor marriage and the marriage bed. We talk about how God wants wives to honor their husbands, but He also commands husbands to honor their wives. 

Announcer: Welcome to the podcast, Life to The Full, with Nancy Campbell, founder and publisher of Above Rubies.

Nancy Campbell: Hello, everyone! It’s always so wonderful to be with you! Today we’re going to continue talking about marriage. I have my wonderful husband with me again. We talked about marriage last week, but I think we need to talk about it a little more today. Marriage was the very first institution that God ordained. It really has fallen into disrepute in this age in which we are living. I believe it’s time to elevate it back to where God placed it.

I want to give you this quote. It’s my favorite quote about marriage, written or spoken, by John Piper, who is well known. He said,

“There has never been a generation whose view of marriage

is high enough.”

I believe that is so true. I don’t think any generation, particularly this one, has elevated marriage to the place where God has put it.

It is the revelation and the picture of Christ and His Bride, the church. God has given to marriage the responsibility, the privilege, to share this picture with the world. If only we could get ahold of that, I think it would help us to elevate marriage to where it’s meant to be.

I have been thinking recently of something that I often share with women regarding motherhood. I have always encouraged mothers that it’s not enough to love your children. You’ve got to love motherhood. That is so true.

Every mother loves her children. She would give her life for her children, but I would say that the majority of mothers don’t actually love the career of motherhood! It’s only when we get a revelation that this is the career God has given to us as women—we embrace it, we begin to confess that we love it, we take hold of it, and make it our life. When we do that, we come into the joy of it. We come into walking in the fullness of it.

Recently, I have been thinking, “Wow! That same principle applies to marriage.” We can love our husbands, but do we love marriage? Do we love marriage as God intends it to be, as He has revealed it in His Word? I’m not sure we all do. We can fall in love with this man, and we get married because we fell in love.

But we go into marriage not really planning to do it God’s way. We’re going to do it our way! We know this, especially in this age of so many egalitarian marriages, trying to have equality in marriage. Well, of course, we all know without a doubt that male and female are totally equal. But God gave us very defining and unique roles, specifically in the role of marriage. When we embrace our unique role, wow! We’re going to have a greater marriage.

The proof of doing it our way is in what is happening in our society today. There is such a breakdown of marriage, as much in the church as in the secular world. We’ve got to come back to God’s way, I do believe.

I think we have to start right at the very beginning, and then at the beginning, there was that beautiful marriage ceremony. We read the last words, I’m sure they were the benediction, as often they are spoken in marriages today, where it says in Genesis 2:24: “Therefore, shall a man leave his father and mother and cleave to his wife, and they shall be one flesh.”

I think that is the very first principle of marriage right there, that we are to be one. It is a oneness. You don’t come into that immediately, I don’t think. We come into marriage, and there’s still the two of us. It takes time to blend into one. What would you say about that, Darling?

Colin: Takes two to bring to one?

Nancy: No. You’re not listening to me. [laughter]

Colin: I was writing something.

Nancy: I think it takes time for us, when we come into marriage, we don’t necessarily, suddenly, we are one. Yes, we become one flesh, because that is the consummation of marriage, but it takes time to blend together as one. What would you say about that?

Colin: It does. It certainly does. I think a lot of people think that they have it all worked out as how it should be, and how one we should be. But often, that is very one-sided. It’s a one-sided opinion.

If the husband feels he’s got it all figured out, and the wife thinks she’s got it all figured out, it’s going to go her way, it’s going to go his way. It’s going to take time to mold together, to work together to unity—to let the other partner in the marriage, the other husband or wife, and I don’t like the word “partner.” It’s used in the wrong way today.

Nancy: No, I hate the word “partner.”

Colin: It’s going to take your spouse and yourself to be molded together into one, over time, to learn how to relate to one another.

Nancy: Yes, and I think also, that is learning to let go of selfishness, and “me, me, me.” It’s the same in motherhood. You come into motherhood still pretty much selfish. With every new baby, you’re learning to give more and more of yourself. That’s why I think you learn to mother better with each new baby. You look back, and you think, “Help! My poor first child! How did they survive?”

It’s the same with marriage. We come in, and we’re still have these selfish attitudes. It’s “How it’s going to affect me,” and “Poor me,” and “What is my husband doing for me?” But we have to learn to let those things go because they really do not bless our lives. We learn as we go along that the greatest fullness of life is denying your own life and living for others.

I love that Scripture where it says that he that he that “will save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his lie for My sake and the gospel’s will save it” (Mark 8:35). It is so true.

We don’t find our lives by trying to find who we are. No, that’s not the secret. We find our lives by laying down our lives for others. I think that even in our marriage it took time for us to mold and blend together. Now that we have been . . .

Colin: Probably me more than you! [laughter]

Nancy: Now that we have been married for 60 years, well, I think we’re getting there! [laughter]

Colin: Yes. I think we’re just beginning, actually! Sixty years in, and we’re still learning. We’ve still got more to learn.

Nancy: Yes, but I think we are very blended.

Colin: Can I say something here on the subject of . . .. it’s not my opinion that really counts . . . We’ve been talking this morning, even before this podcast about the Lordship of Jesus Christ in our lives. It affects every area of our lives, including our marriage. All the decisions that have to be made, and our attitudes, our moods, our demands, our feelings of need, and all that. But it all comes back to whether we have fully, as Christians (if we call ourselves Christians) have we fully surrendered our lives? We were singing this morning in our family devotions, “I Surrender All.” Have we really? Somebody said,

“If He’s not Lord of all, He’s not really Lord at all.”

There’s probably some truth in that.

But we need to be learning day by day in our lives to hand every aspect, especially the importance of marriage, because marriage is not just to be treated as something which is so natural that God really has very little to say in it. No, He should have a lot of room to . . . We need to be listening to Him, as to how to make our marriage much more what God intends it to be.

Nancy: Yes. I love these two quotes also, by John Garr. He says, “It is,” talking about the oneness of marriage. He said, “It is a divinely sanctioned state of oneness that can be paralleled only in the unity that exists in God Himself.” Wow, that’s a pretty profound statement.

Colin: It’s a big statement.

Nancy: But it’s something that we are to aspire to and that we have the same oneness that there is in the oneness in the body of the triune God, how they have such oneness together.

I also love this little quote. He says that when you get married, “Your two-ness ceases to exist.”

God created male and female. There were two. Then when He created the female, he brought her to the man. Then He put them together again and said, “You shall be one flesh.” We are meant to be one. I think it’s a good thing.

I have to often get my thinking straight in situations that arise. I have to think, yes, I am one with my husband, so what I do, or how I think, or what I’m planning to do in this situation is not only according to me. It also is according to my husband. How does this affect both of us, because it’s not just me. We are one. Our twoness has ceased to exist. We are one.

Colin: Of course, there is still in that oneness, there are different giftings.

Nancy: Oh, yes, of course!

Colin: And because you’re not negating that, I know. It’s the importance of being . . . You can have a oneness with the opinion of blessing each one to be what God intends them to be. You understand that your husband has callings in his life and giftings in his life. As a wife, you need to be one and encouraging them to be developed in his life.

Likewise, with the husband, he needs to be serving his wife in her vision of motherhood, or whatever God has given her to do, to be one in that. He’s not negating it, he’s not putting it down, unless, unless she’s out or order, or he’s out of order. We are to have that oneness, and we should seek that oneness. We should be working together to make that oneness happen.

I think it’s not just going to happen of itself. It’s going to happen as we look to each other and we look to the Lord, to make that oneness, to have that peace and that unity with each other in what we are doing, and how we are coming to understanding wherever we are in life.

Nancy: Yes. I’d like to read one or two Scriptures, revealing once again, the oneness of marriage, and also the oneness that God wanted to have with His people Israel, and also that He wants to have with His now blood-bought people who have come into His kingdom. God is a very jealous God.

Song of Solomon 8:6: “Set me as a seal upon thine heart, as a seal upon thine arm: for love is strong as death; jealousy is cruel as the grave: the coals thereof are coals of fire, which hath a most vehement flame.” It is not wrong for a husband to be jealous of a wife that is looking, maybe, outside her home, or at someone else apart from her husband.

I think we talked about it last time, didn’t we? About the exclusivity of marriage, and how that, when we’re married, OK, we no longer have another relationship with another person of the opposite sex on our own. Yes, we have friends together, which are the great blessing of life. But our marriage is exclusive.

Paul wrote to the Corinthians in 2 Corinthians 11:2-3: “For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband.” Now, that was talking about how he has brought them to the Lord and He is to be their only One that they worship, and to have no other gods before them. But he is using the analogy of marriage, because marriage portrays this beautiful picture.

“For I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.”

Did you know, folks, that they are now seeking to bring in a law to have a marriage of three? We can hardly believe that, but then, of course, we can believe it, with the ridiculous things that are happening in our nation today. How can we allow this? How can this even be? I believe it is because we have not elevated marriage to where God placed it. Marriage is with one husband. Therefore, a husband or a wife can be jealous.

Colin: Jealous. I think that word is true. There can be incredible jealousy and hurt when one partner or the other is feeling that they have been jilted. There’s a competition there, between them and somebody else. That the wife may be looking to this man and looking to this man. I think that’s something that needs to be avoided as much as possible.

Nancy: I think that it should not only be avoided as much as possible; it has to be totally wiped out!

Colin: In the normality of life, you’re going to be dealing with the opposite sex one way or another. As far as your marriage is concerned, and even, I think in spending too much time, you said, “with the same sex.” I think you were meaning, “with the opposite sex.”

Nancy: Yes, that’s what I was meaning. Yes, that’s what I meant. Sorry.

Colin: That’s not having another man in your life that you regard, that you feel you want to have that liberty to have that friendship, and a special friendship with another person in your life, another man in your life, not of your sex, but a different sex. That can create great jealousy and competition and hurt, too.

Nancy: Yes, absolutely!

Colin: And all sorts of problems can arise from that.

Nancy: Yes! As God says in Exodus 20:3-5: “Thou shalt have no other gods before Me . . . Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God.” This is the picture that we are portraying in our marriage, that we will have no other person before our husband. That’s not just in life, but in our thoughts, and in any other way.

There is one passage in the Bible that says: “Flee fornication.” You do not put yourself in a situation where you can ever even be tempted. I was reading one other translation recently, and it said, “Fly from fornication.” I thought, “Wow, that’s pretty good.” You can flee. That means you can run, but maybe you’ve got to do more than that. You’ve got to fly from it! You never even put yourself in that temptation. That’s how we have to live, so astutely, I believe.

Colin: I don’t think we can overestimate what we’re talking about here or underestimate it. It is so important what we’re saying right now. It is a major problem, I think, in many, in the desire for liberty in marriage, and freedom to go beyond the borders that God has created in marriage. Therefore, there needs to be walls, there needs to be fences, there needs to be boundaries, to these personal relationships with each other. Otherwise, anything and everything can come in, and unfortunately, mar what God is really calling for.

Nancy: Yes, and I think Malachi 2:14-16 has very, very serious words about marriage. It’s right there at the end of the Old Testament, just about getting to the last words. It says, “You cry out.” I’m reading from the New Living Translation. “You cry out, ‘Why doesn’t the Lord accept my worship?’ I’ll tell you why. Because the Lord witnessed the vows you and your wife made when you were young. But you have been unfaithful to her, though she remained your faithful partner.”

I don’t really like that word, as we said before, because today, it’s used for a same-sex partner, or any kind of partner. “The wife of your marriage vows. Didn’t the Lord make you one with your wife? In body and spirit you are his. And what does he want? ‘Godly children from your union. So, guard your heart; remain loyal to the wife of your youth. For I hate divorce!’ says the LORD, the God of Israel. ‘To divorce your wife is to overwhelm her with cruelty,’ says the LORD of Heaven’s Armies. ‘So, guard your heart, to not be unfaithful to your wife.’”

Now, in the King James Version, it says these words: “In the beginning,” it says: “you dealt treacherously.” boy, that’s a powerful word, isn’t it? “Treacherously with the wife of your youth.” Then, toward the end, it says: “Let none deal treacherously against the wife of his youth.”

TREACHEROUS

Actually, three times in that passage, in the King James Version, it uses the word, “treacherously.” That’s how God sees it, when either a wife or a husband, looks beyond her marriage, to someone else, maybe in meeting, even in thoughts. God looks upon this as treachery because He has made us one.

Colin: On that line, too, you never know. Some people might think, “Well, I’m strong in my mind. This is just a platonic thing.” But you do not understand sometimes what’s going on in the other person’s mind that you are having a lot of association with. You could be encouraging something there. Also, we have to consider not just our own feelings, but also the feelings of somebody else. We should not become a temptation to them.

Nancy: Yes. And therefore, you learn to act and live wisely.

Colin: Wisely. You’ve got to be wise about all this.

Nancy: Also, too, the marriage bed is something that we must honor. In Hebrews 13:4, the New English Translation says: “Marriage must be honored.” We’re talking about honoring marriage, lifting it up to the highest state that God has given us. “Marriage must be honored among all, and the marriage bed kept undefiled, for God will judge sexually immoral people, and adultery.”

The Amplified Classic says: “Let marriage be held in honor, esteemed worthy, precious, of great price, and especially dear in all things. And thus let the marriage bed be kept undefiled, kept un-dishonored, for God will judge and punish the unchaste, all guilty of sexual vice and adultery.”

So, I believe that, yes, that is talking about when someone violates the marriage bed and is immoral with someone else. But it also is speaking about even keeping that marriage bed holy and honorable. As the Amplified brings out the full meaning of the Greek, “to esteem it worthy and precious, and of great price.”

I believe this is how we should look upon sexual intimacy in our marriage, that it is of great price. It is very dear. It is sacred. It’s something that is very sacred. We need to keep it sacred, keep it honorable, and keep it holy, even in the marriage bed. I think that is important.

Colin: I think because in today’s world, it’s an information world. It’s much more information now on these subjects, from a worldly perspective, on how to satisfy one another in the marriage bed, using worldly mindsets and thoughts. This can really bring corruption into the marriage bed. I do think that this is extremely important on this particular point, that we refrain from looking at any form of books or movies.

I may sound like I’m being very narrow and very square, but I do think it’s extremely important, because your marriage is a holy institution. Intimacy is a holy thing. God wants us to keep it holy and not to pervert it.

I think, as men or women . . . I once had to counsel a woman because she said her husband was wanting her to watch perversion, pornography with him so they could practice this in their own marriage relationship. She was appalled at it. I had to call the man up about it. This is the kind of thing that is happening in today’s world. That is something that we must avoid at all costs, and really pray about that type of thing from coming in and destroying the marriage relationship, and the experience.

Nancy: Yes. It only brings destruction. It will even bring down the glorious act of intimacy in the marriage to a low degree and become less and less what it is meant to be. Using all these extra things and stuff that people want to do today, is only, they’re counterfeiting. They totally dishonor the marriage bed. God has made it to be so glorious without all that junk. In fact, the more junk people use, the less it will become. We have to honor and see it as something of great price and holy and honorable.

HONORING ONE ANOTHER

In talking about honor, which we are seeking to do in this podcast, I’ve noticed in the Word of God that both the husband is to honor his wife, and the wife is to honor her husband. But they are different words in the Greek. So, I’d like to share those with you.

In talking of the wife first, we go to Ephesians 5:33. The whole of Ephesians 5, we’re not going into it today, but oh, these are passages worth reading over and over because they give the whole picture of walking in our marriage, to show to the world that picture of how His body, how His people, how they relate to Him, how they honor Him.

How they put Him above all others, and how Christ Himself is laying His life down for His church. He laid His life down. He went to the cross. But even now, He is still sacrificing. He is still interceding at the Father’s right hand, continually, for us. It is love for us. It’s good to constantly remind ourselves of these beautiful truths.

Out there in the world, they like to come against what they call “the patriarchal marriage,” where the man is taking dominance over his wife. I don’t know why they like to bring that up against Christians, because if they read the Bible, they will see, in Ephesians 5, and other places, how the man, the husband, the patriarch of the home, is meant to be laying down his life for his wife, to be loving her as he loves his own body. Oh, goodness me! They have a totally wrong conception of it all.

And, of course, you hear about situations where that does happen. But that’s not Bible. That’s someone who is totally out of sync with God, and out of sync with the Bible. That word, oh, I must read it to you. Ephesians 5:33: “The wife see that she reverence her husband.” “Reverence her husband.”

Now, in the Amplified Classic, let me read it to you. “However, let each man of you, without exception, love his wife, as being an offence against his very own self. And let the wife see that she respects and reverences her husband, that she notices him, regards him, honors him, prefers him, venerates and esteems him, and that she defers to him, praises him, and loves him, and admires him exceedingly.” Wow! That’s a tall order, isn’t it?

Colin: That’s a tall order!

Nancy: That is giving a very full understanding of that word, “to reverence,” which, when you look up the Strong’s Concordance, you will see that it even means “to fear.” So, it is an awe and reverence that we are to give to our husband who God has placed to be head of our home, and to be our covering and protection, and also our provision. But then, we go to the man.

Colin: May I just interrupt?

Nancy: Oh, do you want to say something?

Colin: To get to the point, I think that it’s often, people might say, “Well, I don’t feel like I can do that. That’s a tall order that’s way beyond me.” This is where we have to come to an understanding that the Lord didn’t put this in the Word (that Amplified Version gives various . . . The Greek can’t be explained in just one single English word). It gives us the different shades of meaning to it, which really brings the full meaning out of how the wife should respect her husband, and honor and venerate, and so on. If the wife thinks, “I can’t do that. It’s just beyond where I’m at right now,” that’s where they need to click into the nature of Christ that’s in them. He is in them, so that you can move into that, into His realm, of His Spirit.

If you can’t, if you’re struggling with it, you can be praying about it, saying, “Lord, I want You to come through, I want You to make this thing real in my life. I call upon You to help me in this regard.” I think this is what God is looking for. We may not be perfect in all these things that we’re saying, but if we’re aiming to get there, we’re looking to the Lord to make His nature more predominant in our marriage and in our love for one another, it’s a growing process. But we’ve got to be pushing into that and that’s what it’s referring to there.

Nancy: Yes. And then, it also says, in the Word of God, in 1 Peter 3:7: “Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honor unto the wife as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life, that your prayers be not hindered.” Here we see the husband is to also honor his wife. It’s in a different way.

The Greek word here is timē. It means “to value as precious, to esteem to the highest degree, to give dignity to.” That’s beautiful, isn’t it? So, as wives are to reverence and give honor to their husband as the one who God has placed as head of their home, so the husband will be giving honor to his wife. He will be seeing her as so precious. Oh, he will be esteeming her to the highest degree! He will be showing her dignity and giving her the dignity that she needs to receive from their husband.

Colin: Sometimes the “weaker vessel” may refer to the fact that she is maybe weaker physically.

Nancy: Yes, that could be.

Colin: Also, she may be somewhat weaker emotionally at times. I think that I don’t know whether this is a good illustration, but I could say it you. In most of our homes, we have what we call “china cabinets” where we put the most precious vessels in a safe place. We keep them from being used in a common sense. They can get chipped in that kind of state, in a regular cupboard, they’ll get chipped.

But that which is valuable to us, we put in a special place. In a way, a wife should be in a special place with every husband so that he will not just toy with her emotions, and goad her, and tease her in a wrong sense, and treat her in a common sense. I think that’s got to be something that has to be understood by men: treat her as, in some areas, weaker. Not necessarily in character or personality she’s weaker, but in some areas of emotion, she may be, and also physically.

Nancy: Yes, well, I think of myself as a pretty strong person, physically.

Colin: Well, you are! Physically.

Nancy: And emotionally. But I’m still glad you’re stronger than me, because there are many times if I can’t lift something (I can lift pretty heavy things), but I need you around. I’m always needing you to carry these really heavy things. Or do this that I can’t do. Wow!

Colin: You’re also not a person who is a very emotional-type lady. You’re not. You keep a very, very even keel. It’s one thing that I have really been blessed with in having you as my wife. But not all women are the same. Some are very sensitive. Maybe those sensitivities need to be ministered to and get the victory over super-sensitivity. I think it’s understood that a lot of women are more emotional than men, and will cry a lot more than men, usually. Men need to respect these areas and treat them with care.

Nancy: Amen! So, we’re going to end this podcast, a little bit overtime, as usual. Remembering that we are both going to be honoring one another. It’s an honoring of the wife honoring her husband as she respects and venerates and honors him. The husband honoring his wife, treating her like that very most precious thing in the china cabinet. What do we call them today? You don’t call them china cabinets here.

Female voice: A hutch?

Nancy: Yes, a hutch, or whatever. Yes, in fact, we have, in our china cabinet, as we call it . . .

Colin: The hutch.

Nancy: The hutch, OK. We have some very, very precious china that has been passed down our family. When Colin’s mother passed away, it was passed on to him as the oldest son. We did get that. We didn’t get everything that he was meant to get as the oldest son.

Colin: That’s another story!

Nancy: There was a very, very, very expensive, incredible silver, what was it? A silver . . .

Colin: A tea set.

Nancy: A tea set sort of thing. Yes, very expensive. But anyway, Colin’s mother did not give it to us, because she didn’t trust us! She passed it on.

Colin: She thought I’d sell it!

Nancy: Yes! She passed it on to our eldest son. But we were happy about that, because when we were married, we had all these beautiful . . . and we’re going overtime, but I’ll just tell this little story. We were given all these wonderful wedding presents. But the Lord had called us out to the mission field, and we were preparing to go out.

Colin: For our lives, really. Never thought we’d come back.

Nancy: Really. We didn’t know. Anyway, we were living in this home owned by the China Inland Mission, and we had this beautiful table and chairs, and all these different things that our family had given us. When it came time to go, we thought, “Well, we don’t know when we’re coming back.” It was a dear (oh they were just this gorgeous) lovely old couple who’d just come back from the mission field. They’d lived their lives . . .

Colin: They were in China for forty years!

Nancy: Well, they’d been in China for forty years. When China had closed, they’d gone to Taiwan. They had served the Lord all their lives. They were coming into this home.

Colin: And they had nothing.

Nancy: They had nothing. So, we said, “OK, here it is.” We left all our wedding presents, everything we owned with them, and we went off!

Colin: And we never thought about the feelings of all those who had given to us.

Nancy: Well, we didn’t think about that.

Colin: Of course, we found out later. [laughter]

Nancy: His parents weren’t very happy! So, when it came time for us to be left all their stuff, “Oh no! We’re not leaving it with them! They don’t really appreciate temporal things at all!” But anyway, we’re glad our eldest son has it. It looks glorious in his big mansion. We don’t have a mansion. We wouldn’t have known where to put it! Help! Anyway, Darling, you pray.

Colin:

“Lord, we thank You for the honor of marriage, and the honor that you have placed on marriage, and for what You have put into it, and what You desire of it, Lord, to be an emblem of Christ, and a type of Christ and His relationship, the head of the church for His relationship with His bride.

“Lord, what a beautiful, intimate thing, very intimate, very holy, very pure, not common, a very, very not normal, like the average normal, what everybody thinks as normal, but something very special. Help us to honor, Lord, help us to honor it in every way. Lord, let us elevate it to where You want it to be. In Jesus’ Name. Amen.”

Nancy: Amen!”

Blessings from Nancy Campbell

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www.aboverubies.org

Transcribed by Darlene Norris * This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.